Hello Chris, thank you for taking the time to do this interview! It’s been almost four years since our first collaboration (on Zoologist Beaver)! I notice that over the years you have put more focus on your perfumery ingredient distribution business than your own perfume business. Could you tell us more?

Yes, I seem to have become an ingredients supplier, more or less by accident! It started with me offering for sale materials I had to buy in much larger quantities than I imagined ever using because, quite simply, no one sold them in smaller amounts. That part of the business has grown in leaps and bounds as both the amateur perfume-making community has grown and the indie professional community has grown worldwide. As a result, I’m in the process of having major building works done, partly to fix a collapsing roof but also partly to convert areas of our home into secure ingredient-storage areas. I’m pleased that Pell Wall now supports so many up-and-coming perfumers while also supplying much more established businesses and providing access to some of the most interesting ingredients on the market. I believe I’m the only working creative perfumer who is also a major ingredients supplier, and I think that is part of the reason why that aspect of the business has been so successful. I don’t sell anything I wouldn’t use myself.

Are you still teaching perfumery and making new perfumes? And speaking of teaching, you once mentioned that the renowned perfumer behind Mason Francis Kurkdjan had actually travelled to the UK and given talks on perfumery to other perfumers. I thought he was so busy that he wouldn’t have time to share his perfumery knowledge.

I do still run teaching workshops and take on occasional interns, though I don’t do as much of that as I’d like to. It’s an aspect of the work I enjoy. My ambition for the Pell Wall ingredients website is that it should be an educational resource as well as just a shop, so on it I include quotations from other perfumers about the materials as well as my own scent impressions and thoughts about usage. Fortunately, I also still get commissions to create new fragrances for other brands quite regularly (though few are as willing as Zoologist to have me talk about it!), and I still release new fragrances for my own brand at least once a year. I believe when I attended a Perfumer Lovers London talk by Francis Kurkdjan he was promoting new perfumes he was releasing. It was very interesting, but, sadly, no secrets of the perfumer’s art were shared!

Let’s talk about Elephant, shall we? This perfume has taken us more than a year to develop. I remember back in April 2016, when you accepted the project, we thought we could get it designed in three months. In the end, it took us much longer. During this period we both got distracted by many things, and I didn’t really rush you (I think!).

I enjoyed working on Elephant very much, despite the distractions. And no, I certainly didn’t feel I was being rushed. One of the joys of this kind of work is that there is plenty of freedom for creativity to emerge over time.

The initial concept of Elephant was a rich Indian spice/chai tea/sandalwood themed perfume, because I felt that elephants and Indians traditionally have a strong connection. By the time we had reached the third prototype, however, we changed direction – we “opened the windows” to let the air in in the new prototypes, so to speak… now, to me the perfume smells like a herd of elephant walking through a forest and foraging on tree leaves.

I think we were right to change direction, both because where we ended up was much more original and also because it played to my particular strengths as a creative perfumer. As time went on, we moved more and more away from chai and towards fresh air, greenery and leafy effects (an area I think of as one of my strengths). I spent a long time getting the tropical forest effect right and used some very unusual materials to help me do so, alongside more conventional green materials such as violet leaf absolute and Mintonat (which also has an enhancing effect on other materials by the way – many materials have more than one effect in the fragrance). Creating the illusion of fresh air sounds as though it should be easy, but it’s actually quite challenging in a perfume and it’s something I’ve spent a lot of time working on. Small amounts of material that in pure form don’t smell very nice are key to making it work, alongside transparent materials that ‘open up’ the perfume and make it sing. In Elephant, I used 6% of Kohinool to help get that effect. It’s a lovely material, with soft woody-amber and floral aspects. Plus, its name is derived from that of the most famous diamond in the world – and who couldn’t be inspired by that?

You mentioned that Elephant was your most complex perfume to date.

Yes. It didn’t start out that way. But as time went on and we added more complex accords, it finished up with hundreds of individual materials. One of the more complex accords is the sandalwood, made up of 26 different ingredients including natural sandalwood from Vanuatu, which, being a natural product, is itself made up of dozens of aroma chemicals. Almost as complex is the chocolate accord at 23 materials, including several very high-impact materials that need very careful dosing to get right and appear in vanishingly small amounts. Most perfumes I’ve created contain less than 50 ingredients, which is pretty typical for commercial fragrances. I hope wearers won't be aware of the complexity at all, except in the sense that the fragrance should hold their interest better and seem more natural. In my view, if you can pick out the individual notes in a perfume too easily, it’s not finished yet. A perfume smells like itself. If it still smells of its ingredients, then it’s still only a blend.

Above: Sandalwood forest reserve in Marayoor, Kerala, India

Many people who love fragrance say one of their favourite ingredients is sandalwood, and yet not many people have smelled real, pure sandalwood oil. Also, there are different kinds and grades of sandalwood oil. To me, the scent of sandalwood is mildly woody and creamy, definitely distinct, but not very strong. Can you tell us more about the effect of sandalwood in perfumery, and your sandalwood accord for Elephant?

Natural sandalwood is very expensive and hard to come by now, and the type widely regarded as the best – Indian sandalwood from Santalum album heartwood – is not legally available anywhere outside India. So, if you’re offered any, it’s either been smuggled out or, more likely, it’s fake. In my view, Vanuatu sandalwood from Santalum austrocaledonicum is the next best, and the government of the island began actively encouraging community farming and planting about 10 years ago. That oil, too, has become very expensive, but fortunately I bought a small store of it 6 years ago that I’m still eking out. Next would be Santalum spicatum or Australian Sandalwood, now extensively imported into India for distillation. Finally, there are other unrelated species such as Amyris balsamifera – sometimes sold as West Indian Sandalwood – which is deceiving. But despite being a completely different plant, it is possible to produce a very fine oil from it. The wood oil is widely sold, but personally I think the oil extracted from the bark is superior. Elephant contains Vanuatu sandalwood, as well as Amyris bark oil and two dozen other ingredients combined to make a convincing imitation of Indian sandalwood, but with a bit more strength and power. Many people can hardly smell real sandalwood, but almost everyone should be able to smell the blend used in Elephant.

I also want to touch on the coconut milk and cocoa ingredients you used in Elephant. I know they’re in the perfume, because we developed the scents together, but I think most people might have a hard time detecting them. These two ingredients have a distinct strong food/smell association, and yet in the perfume it’s lightly used.

I tried to use these elements in a way that would allow them to integrate into the perfume as a whole. I remember when you first asked me to add a chocolate note – something that wasn’t part of the original brief – I said it was certainly possible. What I envisaged was a chocolate that would enhance and work with the sandalwood to give it added richness and depth. If you look for it, you can certainly find chocolate in Elephant – but if you’re not looking, I don’t think it jumps out at you as it might from something like Chanel's Coco Mademoiselle, for example. In the same way, I saw the coconut milk element acting in support of the milky, soft elements of the sandalwood core of Elephant. I didn’t want it to smell like food. After all, most people enjoy the smell of frying bacon, but few people want to wear a perfume that smells like it!

May I assume that Elephant is your proudest work? What should the wearer expect from this perfume?

I guess if you ask most perfumer-creators what their favourite work is, they will usually say it’s the one they most recently finished. I’m certainly a bit like that! I suppose part of the reason for that is that, like any artist or craftsman, I’m always seeking to improve the quality of the work I do. Elephant has benefited from all my mistakes and successes that went before it. I hope it will be a grand commercial success – but even if it isn’t, I believe we’ve created something genuinely original and I’m extremely proud of that. In a crowded perfume market, it’s not easy to come up with something that is new, beautiful and has something to say. Elephant is all of those.

Thank you so much!

Note to reader: It might seem odd that I call Elephant “the scent of deforestation”. Elephants have big appetites, and on the surface they are quite destructive to their habitat. In 2013, I watched a TED Talk by the biologist Allan Savory on the subject of desertification. He confessed that in 1950s, when he was young, his research indicated to him that in order to stop the deterioration of the land in Africa’s national parks, the number of elephants had to be reduced. The government agreed, and subsequently 40,000 elephants were killed to “stop the damage”. Later, he discovered that his research conclusion was faulty. He described it as “the saddest and greatest blunder of my life, and I will carry that to my grave.” This sparked a stronger determination to find a solution to desertification. Eventually he figured out that the constant grazing and movement of large herds is essential to the regeneration and protection of the natural ecosystem. This talk left me with teary eyes and is forever etched in my mind. I subsequently watched more videos on elephants and learned that their “purging” behaviour plays an important role in the dispersal of seeds and the clearance of areas for new plants to grow.

When I smelled Chris’ fourth revision of Elephant – the aroma of fresh air, green leaves, woody dry down – in my mind I immediately saw images of leaves and bark being stripped from trees by elephants. I knew this was the right scent direction we should move forward with. I hope you will enjoy this scent. It’s one of Zoologist’s proudest creations.

-Victor Wong

Zoologist Elephant will be available on September 30th, 2017

Hello Juan. Thank you for taking the time to do this interview. How are you?

Hi Victor, I’m fine. Thank you for inviting me to do this interview.

How’s the weather in Puerto Rico right now? Toronto in April is still a bit chilly, and bulbs have just started sprouting.

Right now the weather is moderately warm. Puerto Rico is a tropical island where extreme temperatures are very rare. Our maritime tropical weather prevents major temperature changes. The most obvious seasonal change in weather is from the dry to the wet season. However, the difference between the dry and the wet seasons is not extreme. There can be dry spells in the wet season, and it can be rainy in the middle of the dry. I live in the central mountains, and the weather here is usually cooler and more humid than the coast. The mild weather and the beautiful sunny beaches, which receive the trade winds, makes it an excellent tourist destination.

San Juan, Puerto Rico Coast

It seems like Puerto Rico is a horticulturist’s paradise!

Although Puerto Rico is a small island, we have very diverse flora. Our tropical rainforests have a very high number of plants species compared to temperate climate forests. Our year-round warm weather and frequent rainfall allow us also to grow many exotic tropical plants and flowers. As a professional horticulturist and gardener myself, the weather is perfect for growing many plants outside with little extra protection. Only some of my orchids need to be grown in a greenhouse that is protected from too much sunlight and rain.

That’s why I often see you post beautiful photos of your orchids on Facebook!

Yes! I think about 80% of my Facebook posts are about my plants. The rest is probably perfumery related. I just have a very limited backyard garden, mostly fragrance flowers, herbs and spices. Orchids are certainly the most abundant plant family in my garden. I grow and collect several orchid species and hybrids.

Would you tell us what you do?

My professional studies are in plant sciences and horticulture, but I’ve been dedicated full-time to my local fragrant bath and body product business for about 12 years. I started making scented soaps, but quickly added other products like lotions, body splashes and scented candles. Most of the fragrances of my bath and body line are just basic and uncomplicated scents. My business took a more complex perfumery approach in 2012 when I launched my first group of perfumes under The Exotic Island Perfumer line.

I first heard about you through Shelley Waddington (perfumer of Zoologist Hummingbird and Civet), who speaks highly of you! She mentioned that she, you and a few self-taught perfumers studied perfumery together.

I so much admire Shelley’s perfumery work! Her style is so unique and inspiring. I met Shelley and other fellow indie perfumers several years ago, before the Facebook era, in an online perfume-making forum. Together we started gathering and locating basic and rare aroma-chemicals and naturals, and discussing our impressions of each material, their potential uses and effects in a composition as well as safety issues. We worked with basic accords and classical formulas. Later we started exchanging our own compositions for further discussion and constructive suggestions. It was a very fun and helpful group with very diverse background experiences in perfumery. Some of us just studied perfumery as a hobby, with no particular business interest. Others, like Shelley, Paul Kiler and me, kept going with perfumery to a business level. My first perfume debut was in 2011 as a guest collaborator for Shelley’s EnVoyage perfume line. I created Nectars des Iles as part of a wedding fragrance duet inspired by the tropics. Nectars des Iles is the island floral fruity nectar counterpart to Shelley’s Vents Ardents, which is a woody amber with sweet touches of rum, citrus and tropical fruits.

Wow, that’s amazing, particularly since the Internet wasn’t mature at that time. I learned about your perfumery work through your “Exotic Island Aromas” webshop on etsy.com, and I think they are beautiful works! Can you tell us about your perfumes and styles?

In 2012, I debuted my first perfumes. Flor Azteca and Oudh Nawab were the first two perfumes I launched and were part of the Primordial Scents 2012 perfume project hosted by Monica Miller of Skye Botanicals, where several perfumers submitted various perfumes inspired by the elements Air, Water, Earth, Fire and also Spirit. Flor Azteca – a tuberose with incense, balsamic resins like copal, benzoin and frankincense with touches of piquant spices and cacao – was submitted as a “Fire” perfume. Oud Nawab – a deep, oriental resinous woody amber with precious notes of Kalimantan oud, sandalwood, cypriol, myrrh, earthy Persian spices and dried fruits – was submitted as an “Earth” perfume. Later in the same year I launched two soliflores, Magnolio de Verano and Gardenia Exhuberante.

Donna Hathaway, a perfumer reviewer in Portland, loves your perfumes. She gave you the nickname “King of Flowers”!

Donna is a lover of plants and flowers, just like me, and was one of the earliest reviewers of my work. As a gardener and plant collector since childhood, my initial interest in scents was via fragrant flowers and herbs. My first perfumery projects were decoding the constituents of some of my favorite flowers, like gardenia, tuberose and plumeria, and making my own versions of them. I enjoy making reconstitutions of flower scents a lot, but I also enjoy deep woody and balsamic orientals. Currently I have some ongoing projects in these genres. I still struggle with heavy animalic notes and patchouli, but I’m learning to appreciate them more with time.

Let’s talk about our collaboration, shall we? I remember we had no struggle agreeing on naming the fragrance “Dragonfly” and starting the project right away. I knew you would make an excellent fleeting aqueous floral scent.

Sure! I’m very honored to be a collaborator for a Zoologist fragrance, and yes, I remember you asked me if there’s a particular animal that I’d be interested in. I quickly said a bird or an insect, but an insect quickly got your attention, and the name “Dragonfly” was your almost immediate suggestion. I liked it a lot, and we quickly discussed possible notes for the perfume. We also considered “Swan”, but thought a “Dragonfly” would be more fun or unusual.

What perfumery notes did you immediately conjure up in your head when designing Dragonfly? Did you draw any inspiration from classic perfumes for this project?

When I think of a dragonfly, my obvious thoughts are a pond, water lilies and lotuses, iris and water reeds. Beautiful pastel watercolor paintings of lilypads and dragonflies perching over iris flowers. I’m sure many people think the same when they think of a dragonfly. So I wanted to incorporate all those elements in the perfume, but not in the traditional “aquatic spa” set of notes we often find in perfumes inspired by these elements. As for classic inspiration, one of my inspirations for Dragonfly was Guerlain’s Apres L’Ondee, the way such a beautiful perfume conjures up the idea of a garden after the rain, without using the traditional modern concept of “aquatic”, which not available by the time the perfume was originally made. Although it was not a direct or obvious citation, Apres L’Ondee was an initial inspiration for the Dragonfly’s watery surroundings.

Water Lily Pond and Weeping Willow, by Claude Monet - flickr, Public Domain, Link

I think a lot of people associate dragonflies with “carefree flight” and joy, but what fascinates me most about them is that they need to live near a water body. They spend half their life as nymphs underwater, and emerge to undergo a metamorphosis. I want to make a perfume that evokes the beauty of ponds and aquatic flora. There are two particular perfumery notes, rice and papyrus, that I have always wanted to use, and in Dragonfly you have brilliantly incorporated them.

Appearances can be deceiving. Behind what appears to be a light and carefree existence, frittering away time over the pond in joyful flight, lurks the much darker reality that dragonflies are efficient and ruthless predators, veritable dragons of the insect world, always alert to the opportunity to catch unwary prey. They are in a constant hunt for small insects like mosquitoes and other small flying insects. They perch on the taller reeds, looking for prey. The nymphs, out of the water, look weak and defenceless, but when one sees them in their habitat it becomes apparent that they are equipped with a nightmarish set of jaws that can open wider than their head and gives them an alien and frightful look when they attack their prey. They are fully as cold-blooded predators as the adult form.

Yes, I think rice and papyrus was a very nice choice of notes from you, considering both plant species grow near aquatic environments or bogs. But initially it was also challenging to make them work in the formula. Both notes have their own particular effects through different stages of the perfume. When you told me about rice, I brought you a cooked rice note, which wasn’t the exact note you were looking for, so the original outcome was more like stale rice in a muddy pond and quite strong. Something similar happened with papyrus. The initial direction for papyrus was focused mainly in cypriol or nagarmotha (Cyperus scariosus), which is a close relative of the Egyptian papyrus (Cyperus papyrus). The oil obtained from the nagarmotha plant is very rich and exotic, very dry and woody, with vetiver and peppery facets. It’s often used in oud accords. Such deep dry woody note was difficult to incorporate in the formula, but later the use of a less dense cypriol extraction combined with other green ingredients did the trick for the Papyrus accord we were looking for.

Papyrus

Another aspect of Dragonfly I find fascinating is its three distinct phases of scent development – they paint a living picture of an Impressionist pond painting. The opening is airy, moist, and mildly sweet, like the morning mist. The middle is strong and green, like the afternoon sun beating down the greens, and the ending is peaceful and tender – like a quiet night. Can you tell us how you achieve that?

Yes. Dragonfly has various facets through its development, where many of its ingredients are interconnected and complementary in multiple accords at different stages. You get the fresh and airy opening, where the almondy heliotrope has a fresh flower quality supported by a sparkling “solar accord” of salicylate-laced florals and a touch of aldehydes. As the fresh opening fades away, the anisic sweet elements of the heliotrope accord with a very special French mimosa absolute rearranges, complementing the aquatic green floral heart focused in the lotus flower, which also is naturally soft and anisic. This heliotrope-mimosa-lotus trinity intertwines with iris/rice powder and green stem notes, then making a transition to mossy woods, mineral earthy notes and amber, wrapped with white musks. Although it’s a fragrance inspired by life in a pond, it’s not a typical aquatic composition at all. It’s a very rich fragrance with many contrasts; it can be airy, it can be dense, sometimes fresh aquatic, sometimes dry and earthy. The richness of its woody base and the use of ingredients that can be “drying” – like cypriol, iris and the slight powderyness of mimosa – prevents the composition from becoming a transparent aquatic composition.

I must mention that we’ve spent one year developing the perfume. Initially, we both thought the concept was clear and it would take three months to design, particularly when we agreed it was going to be a floral heavy scent (which is your forte)…

We wish it would be that simple, but in perfumery things do not always work the exact way we wanted or planned. There are many factors that influence how fast a perfume is finished. Besides the distance and the time it takes for you to receive my prototypes, perhaps one of the factors that influenced me the most was figuring out how each of us think. For example, when you told me you wanted a “rice” note, my mind thought of the scent of cooked rice, which wasn’t exactly what you expected. Later we found that it was really the fantasy scent of rice face powder. And when you said “iris”, I gave you a very abstract earthy orris note, completely different to the classic powdery accords rich in floral ionones that you were expecting as “iris”. I guess I took it too literally. Another issue was making the cypriol work in the papyrus accord. The first cypriol source was too dense and earthy, and it was quite difficult to blend it without overtaking the formula. Finally, another grade of cypriol which is greener and not as dense, did the trick. It’s not uncommon for a perfume to take longer than expected to develop. Some of my perfumes took more time than Dragonfly to get finished. It took me a couple years to have the tuberose accord the way I wanted it in my Flor Azteca perfume. Sometimes I take a very long pause in certain perfume compositions until I find the right ingredients for it.

So do you think this perfume is very ambitious? Is it a simple or a complex perfume, in your opinion? Who do you think is the target audience?

The composition has about 60 individual ingredients, so I think Dragonfly is quite a complex formula full of contrasts. I think anyone can wear it, but I think people who enjoy green floral perfumes, or love reading fantasy stories, might find Dragonfly particularly mesmerizing. The scent has a dreamy, impressionistic-painting, fantastical quality.

Do you think you would consider more collaborations with other clients?

Of course I would! It’s the second time I’ve done a collaboration project, and I really enjoyed the process in both. It gets me out of my comfort zone to experiment with new ideas.

What is next for you?

I’ve been in sort of a pause. I still need to make some improvements to my perfume line. As for new perfume creations, I’m currently working on two new perfumes. One is a more masculine aromatic/gourmand woody that I expect to release by next fall. The other fragrance is a floral that I expect to release probably by late winter/early spring. There are more ideas and projects in mind, so stay tuned!

Thank you for taking the time to do this interview! I wish you the best and good business!

My pleasure. All the best to you too!

Zoologist Dragonfly will be available in late June 2017.

Hello Shelley, good to chat with you again! How are you?

Hi, Victor! It’s great to hear from you. I’m doing well, and hope you are too!

I’m feeling a little nervous, because I’ll soon be launching your new scent, Civet. But otherwise, I’m fine!

You moved from San Francisco to Portland, Oregon about a year ago. How do you like it?

I came to Portland primarily to be with my new little grandson. This is a great place to live and work.

Shelley and her perfumery studio at home in Portland. © Photo: Steve Ross

Does Portland have an active fragrance community? I know that you recently hosted a gathering called “Portland Sniffa”!

The Portland perfume community is lively and growing. The Portland Sniffa was something I put together to commemorate a huge membership benchmark for Charlotte Scheuer’s “Facebook Fragrance Friends”.

Several Portlanders attended, along with perfume-lovers from Oregon, Washington, California and Colorado. We visited three perfumeries, including my own, En Voyage, and then ended up in a luxurious room for dinner and our perfume swap.

The stores we visited reported that we were the largest perfume group they’d ever seen. Every minute was an absolute blast, and we’ll be back next year by popular demand.

Portand Sniffa 2016 Event Photos © Steve Ross

And you showed the final version of Zoologist Civet at the event, too! I know people loved it!

Yes. I introduced Zoologist Civet for the first time at our evening soiree! It received unanimous raves. Robert Hermann, of the popular fragrance blog "Australian Perfumes Junkies", fell so in love with it that he couldn't wait to share the news with the world. He went home the next day and wrote a terrific review, even though the launch was still two months away.

Let’s talk about Zoologist Civet, shall we? What came to your mind when Zoologist asked you to design a perfume called Civet?

My first thought was, ‘Uh-oh, I hope Victor knows how nasty civet smells and I hope he has a darn good brief.’ (He did). Victor also understands my wheelhouse as a perfumer quite well. His ideas were very similar to how I would have conceptualized it myself, so Civet turned out to be a very pleasant collaboration.

I know a lot of people love Hummingbird, the floral nectar perfume you designed for Zoologist a year ago. How does Civet compare to Hummingbird?

Mood-wise, Hummingbird and Civet are worlds apart, almost opposites.

Where Hummingbird is aerial and all sunshine and flirtatious shimmer, Civet is swanky, a little sly, luxuriously furry. A creature who prowls and growls.

Genre-wise, Hummingbird is a unisex woody floral; Civet is a glorious chypre. What do they have in common? They’re both attractive, amusing creatures who each have huge attitude.

Civet surprised me. I think people will be surprised. But that’s all I want to say. I don’t want to ruin the surprise!

Do you often use civet musk in your own perfumes? Can you tell us a bit about the nature of civet musk and what effect it brings to a fragrance?

The civet is a very pretty small animal, about the size of a cat, that lives in the jungles of Africa and Southeast Asia. Civet musk is extracted from their anal glands. Until quite recently, the process of obtaining civet musk was egregiously cruel. Modern civet farmers, under pressure from animal-rights groups, are now kinder to the animals and their methods of extraction more humane. But because of general ethical perception, most perfumers prefer to use synthetic civet.

I use civet in some of my perfumes. The addition of mere traces of this substance exalts and fixes the fragrance, fortifying it and making it more diffusive. It also adds to the wearability and longevity of the perfume.

By the way, remember we tested the idea of making a civet “musk bomb”? But we quickly came to a meeting of minds that even the tiniest increase was decidedly ruinous!

Since we are not using real civet musk, what can you tell us about the quality of the synthetic musk you picked for this perfume?

Civet musk smells disgustingly urinous and fecal in its pure form, whether it’s natural or synthetically reproduced. A close whiff of the pure stuff is an assault to the nose and guaranteed to snap your head back. But a tiny amount, diluted down to less than one percent, has the effect of a magic elixir when added to perfume.

As with all the fragrance materials that I use, I only procure my civet directly from a reputable fragrance manufacturer.

Besides civet musk, there’s a lovely coffee note in Civet, too. I want to include this note because Asian palm civets are famous for the coffee beans that they defecate! Farmers collect them and use them to brew “Kopi Luwak” coffee. Have you had that before?

I was initially skeptical about the “coffee + civet” combo. It sounded very acidic. I’ve worked with coffee before in one of my bestsellers, Café Cacao, so I know it’s a challenging note to work with. For Civet, I sourced the darkest, least acidic coffee available, and then worked in other Eastern materials that would offset the remaining acidity factor. (I’ve described the resulting accord below. It was even better than I’d hoped for.)

As an aside, I purchased some Kopi Luwak online, so that I could experiment with tincturing the beans. My thought was that if it worked, it would be an ideal way to obtain civet musk in the most humane way possible. Unfortunately, the coffee never arrived, so that part was disappointing. I was really looking forward to tasting that coffee!

I know that you’ve spent some time on each of the top, middle and bottom notes layers separately and getting the proportions in the mixture right. Did you have a solid idea of what the perfume would smell like in the very beginning and designed the layers accordingly?

My work is sometimes thought of as leaning towards vintage, but I think a lot of that belief is because I use a high percentage of fine naturals, as was commonly done with vintages. People get a similar vibe from mine and associate it with the vintage perfumes.

But stylistically, I didn’t start out deliberately seeking to create Civet as a vintage. The civet and his environment are timeless and unchanging. So I was aiming towards making more of a Realistic Classic.

I never start blending until I’ve completely conceptualized the story and the final fragrance in my mind. But I always leave a space for surprises to arise. And it was indeed a nice surprise to find that coffee, musk ambrette, opoponax and cinnamon were so incredible together. I didn’t expect the combination to work so well!

For Civet, I was also looking for a specific mood and texture. I found several jungle botanicals from Thailand and Asia that really filled the bill.

I began by laying my canvas with the base, looking for the thematic notes that provide not only the mood and texture, but also the sillage and longevity. I wanted ones that creep up through the heart and top in the ways that I wanted them to. In this case, several auxiliary notes were added to complete the profile of both the civet and his habitat.

The heart is the headspace of the civet’s surroundings – the kinds of smells he smells as he walks and climbs through his environment, and the foods that he eats. As he strolls through his forest grocery store, other animals take notice. They smell him and stop him to ask what he’s wearing.

The top is the glamour he sends out to signal his presence.

But the story only flows properly when the top, heart, and base are perfectly balanced in relation to each other. I hope I answered your question. It’s a little complicated.

Who do you think would enjoy wearing Civet?

It’s hard for me to think of anyone who wouldn’t like this fragrance, although it may contain too much “sex and violence” for the very young. So I’d give it a “Unisex Adult” rating.

I also think it’s a good example of a fragrance that incorporates a lot of natural ingredients in a fairly classic perfume structure. So it would be a great starter perfume for anyone who wants to try something sophisticated with an artisanal vintage vibe.

When we decided on the final formula, we experimented with different perfume concentrations. We tried 20% and 25%…

To me, every perfume has its own ideal point of dilution – it's the point at which everything comes together and blooms in the best way possible. We were surprised that a difference of 5% gave it a much fuller, richer, sultrier sensuality.

(We called Bat, Hummingbird and Civet “Eau de Parfum”, but they are, in fact, “Parfum”. We might rename them to “Parfum” in the future.)

What’s next for you? Will you be releasing any new fragrances in 2017?

All I can say is that each new perfume is a fresh surprise. The next one is underway and I’ll be launching it in early 2017. It’s bringing a wholly new kind of treat. Stay tuned!

Zoologist Civet will be available 2016/12/31. 

This interview originally appeared in Parfumo.net on Oct 20th, 2016, conducted by contributor Chanelle.

Interview with Victor Wong - The creative mind behind Zoologist

First of all, what gave you the idea to launch your own Fragrance Brand “Zoologist”?

Back in 2013, I wasn’t very happy with my career. I felt very insecure and frustrated. I guess that’s what people like to call a “mid-life crisis”. Lots of people playing politics and making decisions that led nowhere. I wanted a project I had full creative control over and to launch some interesting products I could be proud of. Coincidentally, I had just discovered the world of niche perfumes (and was very obsessed with it, as you would have guessed) and wondered if I could create my own brand. I had no insider connections, no entrepreneurial experience, no business strategy and no marketing research. Everything was based on gut feeling. I posted in a Basenotes.net forum asking if there were any perfumers who would help me create some perfumes, and two indie perfumers responded. The rest is history.

Did you ever think about becoming a perfumer yourself? If not, why didn't you?

I had thought about it, but later rejected the idea. I knew that one needs to spend a lot of time practicing perfumery to become good at it, and time is a luxury I don’t have much of. I still have my day job, and when I go home I either spend half the evening fulfilling online orders or developing my next scents and promotional artwork.

How would you describe the process of finding the right perfumer to match the fragrance concept (or was it the other way around)? Did the perfumers choose the animal they would develop a scent concept for?

To me, the most important thing to know before any project starts is the style of a perfumer, and their temperament (which I learn about via online chatting). Once I know his/her style, I can determine what kind of animal is best suited to that perfumer. For example, some perfumers like to make very unconventional and unique fragrances, so I would assign to them an animal that’s unexpected or less widely loved. Some perfumers like to create beautiful, classic perfumes, so for that person I will assign animals that people tend to perceive as elegant or beautiful.

Of course, there are some perfumers who approached me directly and proposed a specific animal that he/she wished to make. (e.g. Ellen Covey’s Bat.) In most cases, I won’t refuse (laugh).

Is there any connection between being a game developer and a perfume aficionado?

Maybe not, but working in a large game studio has inspired me a lot in terms of product development - what sells, what doesn’t, should we take some risks by doing unconventional things, etc. Also, it has taught me the important elements of making and marketing a product, like packaging, marketing copy, social media, etc. My coworkers who specialized in each department all offered valuable opinions, or even helped (for example, by creating the illustrations on the labels).

Are you launching your brand in Germany sometime soon? Lots of people think highly of the concept and the quality of the fragrances, but still they are not well-known over here and some people shy away from ordering overseas.

Right now, I can’t see Zoologist being widely distributed in Germany, or much anywhere else. I won’t be able to make much profit selling to a distributor, because my operation is so small. I mix, bottle and package everything by myself at home, and fulfilling an order of 30 bottles could take me a whole day. My material cost is high because the perfumers sell me their compound concentrate at a markup. I can only make a dollar or two per bottle if I choose the distributor route, but what would be the point? Wholesaling directly to small boutiques is the second-best way for me, and the best way is getting customers to buy directly from my website. But shipping in Canada is horrible, since it’s so expensive … so I guess I just have to take things slowly.

What was your inspiration for a zoology-themed range, and do you plan one in a different direction in the foreseeable future?

I have two branches of thought when it comes to product development. One highlights a particular animalic note, such as castoreum (in, say, Zoologist Beaver), and another inspired by animal habitats (such as Zoologist Bat, which smells like a cave). My new scent, Macaque, is a bit different from the others because it’s about the meditative mood that said animal often elicits in people.

Hi Sarah, thank you for taking the time to do this interview!

You started your perfume house 4160 Tuesdays in London, UK in 2013 and it has been 4 years since then. How are you liking this new page in life and new profession? How is business lately?

We moved into our building in 2013, but the perfumery started up in one end of our attic bedroom in 2010, while I was still working as a freelance writer and writing trainer for big corporations. That was the most terrifying thing I'd ever done, followed by employing people. I really just wanted to make perfume but now I find myself running a business; mind you I have a great team including Brooke Belldon, who knows far more about other people's perfume than I do and blogs as BGirl Rhapsody, Arthur McBain our resident actor and trainee heartthrob. He's going to be very famous soon but in the meantime I've just signed him as the face of The Sexiest Scent on the Planet. Ever. (IMHO).

I recently got back into some very serious making because I've had some fascinating commissions from lovely people (not least you, Victor, and Macaque), but there's Underhill for Misc. Goods Co., Damn Rebel Bitches for Urban Reivers, a couple of very secret private commissions, and two scents to celebrate a woman swimming from England to France to raise money for refugees. There are another few collaborations coming up which I can't tell you about yet, but I do love working with other people to make their ideas happen.

We're poised to double the space we have by moving into next door's building too. I need to run more making workshops and with more people as they all sell out now, after The Guardian wrote a piece about them. We'll have bottling, packing and shipping next door, and my lab and the workshop are in the current one (if it all goes well).

I'm also working with the Facebook Group Mrs Gloss & The Goss; we're on to our third perfume together and I’ve made them an extra Christmas bonus too along the way. That's group bespoke creation and we crowd-fund it so that each group member can have a scent at a sensible price and 20 of them have a hand in its creation. I'm all for embracing the new commerce, using the internet in ways we didn't have 20 years ago. (Too many business models are based on a 150 year old method.)

So right now I'm not sure which way it will go. It's Pitti Fragranze next week – our first time – then there are the workshops, bespoke, collaborations and our online shop.

I see that there are a lot of fans of 4160 Tuesdays raving about your perfumes on your Facebook page. Do you have something to say to them?

Hello! Come and visit.

Really I'm delighted by all the mentions we get, and I can't always keep up. My husband Nick aims to keep track of them, and to point me in the direction of any questions I need to answer.

I never mind if people don't like my perfumes, because when you push perfume into areas that people haven't smelled before to make things you hope some people will love, then you're going to get others really not liking them at all. That's to be expected. But when people really get what it is that I'm up to, and go totally nuts about one of them on Facebook, Twitter or their blogs, then I feel as if it's all worth the bother.

I must say it had come to us by surprise that you contacted us and proposed a collaboration in late 2015. Where did you hear about Zoologist and what triggered the thought of a collaboration?

I thought it was quite daring of me. I had no idea you'd say yes and I was delighted when you wrote back. You could have told me you weren't interested. I didn't know. When I got the EauMG best upcoming brand in 2014, you were second so I looked you up. Of course I know Chris Bartlett, that stalwart of the UK indie perfume team, so we'd heard about Beaver. Chris does a lot of PR for you over here. Then one day I saw that you'd got distribution in Poland and I thought “Wow, I want to work with that man; he's getting his fragrances everywhere!”

Did you enjoy the collaboration?

It was excellent working with you. What was great was that you warned me about wanting lots of mods (perfume prototypes) and not being able to make up your mind, so I was expecting that. I was delighted that you said Macaque was like nothing you've ever smelled before because I feel that this is my perfume role in life. I'm just not interested in releasing fragrances which smell like other people's, not on purpose anyway. Getting permission to make something unique and still wearable was right up my street. What shall we do next?

At the beginning we had spent good amount of time brainstorming which animal to make a perfume of. Ultimately we picked macaque. I know that you love monkeys. Can you tell us more about that?

I'll send you a photo of me and my toy chimpanzees when I was a child. I studied primatology at university too. What's not to love about monkeys and apes? Gorillas are peaceful, misunderstood and endangered; so are orang utans - we visited a rescue centre in Borneo - while chimpanzees are fascinating because they're like humans with a weaker moral compass. I'd love to live somewhere with monkeys in the garden. West London is not that place.

Above: Sarah and parents, and chimpanzee "Sylvester"

Perhaps to a lot of people monkeys are very mischievous, active and they love to eat bananas, yet Macaque the perfume evokes a different kind of feeling. Can you tell us more about your design and choice of ingredients?

Above: Galbanum Illustration. Source: Wikipedia

Monkeys are intelligent and fascinating. Neither of us wanted to go for the cliché tourist monkey. The first ones I met were in Africa and they would steal sugar lumps from afternoon tea in the hotel garden. They have a hand to mouth existence, and some species are ingenious enough to form relationships with humans for food. Macaques are one of them. They come to temples because people leave offerings of food there. The Japanese ones don't eat bananas because they don't grow in Japan. Many people joked "What's it going to smell of? Bananas?" imagining I hadn't heard that before. Ours wasn't going to be a cartoon monkey. So yes to the fruit and vegetable smells, but yuzu and apple. Next, the scents of a Japanese temple. I've been to several in Kyoto, Tokyo and Kamakura so I had an idea of where to set it. Incense making is an ancient craft in Japan. They have whole shops devoted to it and some handmade precious ones are $1000 a box. They are made with as many different materials as we make fine fragrance. I wanted to honour that tradition by using woods and spices including frankincense and cedar. Then there is the warm furry smell of the monkey himself. They wash and groom so the ones I've been close to smelled more like fruity cats than strong animalic perfumes. Galbanum is for the carefully trimmed foliage. I remember John Stephen saying that he thinks galbanum is the sadly underused in modern perfumery and when I was on one of Karen Gilbert's courses in 2011 she recommend galbanum as a material which always seems to answer the question, "What's missing?"

Like other non-industry perfumers I started by learning about naturals then added synthetics to my scent vocabulary (olfacabulary?) to achieve effects which aren't possible with naturals. There are so many interesting naturals in Macaque that without synthetics it would be too intense to wear, even for you Victor. Now that my perfumery is big enough to attract attention I'm getting essential oils companies and the synthetics suppliers coming to me with new discoveries and creations. With Macaque I was able to use some adventurous new things to create what we wanted.

Do you have any favourite perfumery ingredients and perfume genres? And what are your own favourite creations?

I'll reach for the opoponax, pink grapefruit, raspberry leaf absolute, rose absolute, cedrat, maltol, methyl pamplemousse, mandarine and lemon petitgrains I've just got hold of, blackcurrant, coffee absolute, cognac absolute, cedramber and broom absolute.

Genres: fruity chypres and unusual gourmands. The apple and celery herb I just got in will appear together in something soon, probably with cucumber and peach.

My favourites are Tokyo Spring Blossom and whatever I just made. Right now Rosa Ribes, a limited edition I made for myself, Mother Nature's Naughty Daughters and Midnight in the Palace Garden. (We like smelling that one on Arthur – it's his favourite – although I had Aiden Turner in mind when I made it. Don't we all?)

Recently perfume reviewer Luca Turin described your perfumes as “jubilant and unpretentious, a happy wallowing in the richness and beauty of fragrance materials.” Some people generalize your perfumery style as happy, whimsical, full of humour and of simple pleasures. Do you agree? Did you design them that way so that the wearer would feel happy, or do you simply enjoy making happy-smelling scents? Will you challenge yourself and make something is not typical of your style?

I found out about that blog piece while being filmed by an Italian TV crew for a documentary on a perfume I'm making; I cried with happiness. They filmed a close-up… of course they did.

I started the perfumery to make the scents I'd written about in a novella, The Scent of Possibility; they were all to make people think of a happy time in their lives. So 4016 Tuesdays is really only here because I wanted to make happy perfumes. I widened the scope to make fragrances which capture a time or a place or a concept (and these can be imaginary). With Maxed Out (made for Max Heusler, a Youtube fragrance reviewer) we weren't being so happy smelling. Rome 1963 (for Peroni beer) I made stylist Silvia Bergomi's interpretation of a moment from a Fellini film. When I work with others, I'm very happy to go away from my usual style. I think it's a bit like acting. You can get typecast, but you do like to challenge people's assumptions and your own limits. I think that Macaque is a perfect example of my collaborative style; take what someone else wants and do something they didn't realize they could have.

A lot of perfume companies or indie perfumers choose to release only one or two perfumes each year. On Fragrantica, it says that in a span of 3 years since 2013, you have created over 37 perfumes. What are your thoughts on that? Do you have a “perfumer’s block”? How does the development time of Macaque compared to your other scents?

Ah yes, I'd do one a day if I had the chance, maybe two; I have many ideas. I wake up most mornings with more, unless I don't have any money in the bank, in which case it all dries up. That's one of the reasons that I work with other people, I need to make so I like to share. I was aiming to cut down to two a year, then in April Brooke pointed out to me that I'd already launched eight. Franco at LuckyScent said to me, “Stop. Seriously, stop!” But then in his next breath he got all excited about doing something together so I made him three for him to try out. This morning I got an email from one of our lovely stockists about doing a collaboration with him. Creative block… not yet. There are so many materials to blend in so many millions of combinations.

With Macaque we had to go in a particular direction so I would think and think, then blend, then wait and blend a bit more; then we had to do the shipping thing, and get feedback, then do the blending again so it took a little longer. If you'd been in the room, we'd have cracked it sooner.

Finally, what is your opinion on the current indie and niche perfume market?

I can't keep up, Victor. What's happened is that it's the next big thing with the venture capital companies so like Internet businesses 20 years ago, there's funding out there if you want it as long as you structure your business correctly. Mine is totally wrong for that, as I actually do have everything made in my own studio. Since Frederic Malle sold to Estée Lauder people have piled into niche from all directions. You've got the big guys making “niche” fragrances - meaning that they only sell it in a few shops and charge four times more than they do for their mass market lines. They do it because they've seen that the only area of the market that's growing is niche so they're going to control it. You've got small ambitious brands setting up, all with their venture capital funding, their concepts and stories and innovative packaging, and they go to the same top fragrance companies as the big guys to get their perfumes made. They'll pay for the big name perfumers too. It's all good stuff, but some of them have surely got to crash and burn.

In the UK Robertet are doing really well picking up new brands as they make fragrances for some of the better known UK niche houses, and do a beautiful job. Everyone wants to get distribution in the same few stores, then to get noticed and get bought; they have their investors nipping at their ankles asking when they're going to get their money back.

For the actual fragrances, I prefer the real indie work. I like what Ruth Mastenbroek is doing, Liz Moores at Papillion of course, Andy Tauer, the late Angela Flanders, Grossmith - who are open about using Robertet to recreate their phoenix fragrances and to make their new ones, Ex Idolo…

Niche, I like Frederic Malle, Annick Goutal, Les Parfums de Rosine, L’Artisan Parfumeur. Of the big guys, I love Guerlain. I admire courage, richness, a vintage touch without an overly classical heaviness, and originality.

You can find it if you try. I like to think we have those things too.

Zoologist Perfumes Macaque Coming Soon Fall, 2016

Inaba san, thank you for the taking the time to do this interview! Would you tell us a bit about yourself?

I am a perfumer and a fragrance writer/journalist in Japan. I used to work as a director of events and exhibitions in my twenties, and those were some long, hard days. A couple of years ago, I left Tokyo, the big city where I had lived for 20 years, and moved to Kyushu, an island located in the southern part of Japan. Now I have settled down with two precious puppies in the countryside by the ocean.

Above: Tomoo Inaba, Tuberose Farm in India

When did you become interested in perfumes? What made you decide to pursue a career in perfumery?

I grew up in a family with a lot of fragrant flowers and vegetables growing in our garden, and my mom and grandma took great care of them, with love. My mom was especially interested in world plants and she would travel around the world to see them in many botanical gardens. So it was natural for me to learn about those plants and their smells.

Ten years ago, I established a fragrance-distribution company, and soon I realized that I needed to learn what materials and ingredients were used in the fragrances. Otherwise, I couldn't describe them to my customers and make a sale convincingly. Since then, I have been very into fragrances and have published more than 5,200 fragrance reviews (mostly on new releases, but also a few on vintage ones) on my website, profice.jp.

Writing perfume reviews has given me great lessons on perfumery materials and helped me become a better perfumer. I think the more works of other perfumers’ I smell and review, the more critical I become of my own work.

Besides writing reviews, I've been constantly studying books on the subject of perfumery, vintage perfumes and the various plants and materials used in perfumery. To better understand the smell of natural materials, I grow fragrant plants in my garden. These include frankincense, jasminum officinale, ylang ylang, rosa damascena, rosa centiforia, cypress, cassia, patchouli, tuberose, immortelle, cardamon, coriander, pepper, vanilla and many more.

Do you have any formal training in perfumery, or did you learn it by yourself?

I learned perfumery by myself. I started 10 years ago, and I am still learning. I often travel outside of Japan to visit distilleries and farms in different countries such as Madagascar (ylang ylang and some herbs); India (tuberose, jasmine sambac, nagarmotha and more); Sri Lanka (nutmeg, mace and many other spices); Tunisia (orange blossom, geranium and more); and Réunion Island (vanilla, vetiver and geranium). I have been to 25 countries for that purpose so far.

Above: Ylang-ylang and lemongrass harvesting and distillation in Madagascar

Are there any schools in Japan that teach professional perfumery? Do Japanese like to wear fragrances?

One school in Japan teaches professional perfumery. About 90% of Japanese perfumers in this industry are “flavorist”, and 10% design fragrances for bath and toiletry products.

Although there are many fragrance lovers in Japan, most of them are satisfied with typical mainstream designers’ perfumes and only wear fragrances occasionally. As a well-mannered and considerate person in Japan, one only wears a couple of sprays, and tries to make the scents barely noticeable, fearing that too much fragrance might make people around you sick. Also, Japan is a humid country, and when you’re wearing a perfume the scent projection, or spread, becomes stronger.

Above: Toomo Inaba's "Perfume Organ"

Can you tell us about the classes that you teach?

I hold several types of classes, which are between 90 and 120 minutes long. In some classes you can learn about the history of perfumes and materials; in others, you learn to create your own perfume or recreate notable vintage perfumes or my original perfumes. They are hobby classes, and my students have no intention of becoming perfumers.

I first learned about you through your fragrance reviews on Facebook. I feel like you know almost everyone in the perfume industry! Is it your passion to meet and make friends with as many perfumers in the industry?

I am passionate about perfumes, and naturally I have many friends who are perfumers. Among them, I have known Stephane Humbert Lucas the longest. I met him at Cosmoprof, a salon products exhibition held in Bologna, Italy 10 years ago. At the time he was starting his own brand, Nez A Nez, with his wife. (Two years after Cosmoprof, the biggest perfume trade show, Exsence, debuted in Milan.)

Tomoo Inaba and Stéphane Humbert Lucas at Pitti Florence 2016

In my opinion, most perfumers don't like to disclose their knowledge. On the contrary, I'd like to open up mine to my friends. I also want to support niche brand perfume houses as much as I can through my online reviews and magazine columns, and also by purchasing their products. As you know, many start-up niche brands don't have much capital or many shops that carry their products.

Nightingale is your debut perfume. Are you pleased with your creation and excited about the launch?

Absolutely, yes! In Japan, you can’t sell your own perfumes or import any perfumes without a license, and you need a lot of money and time to acquire one. People often say that Japanese pharmaceutical laws are the strictest in the world! They consider fragrances and cosmetics the same as medicine. Now, through Zoologist, my perfume can reach different people in the world.

Out of many animals you could create for Zoologist, why did you choose Nightingale as your first inspiration? Are there any special meanings behind it? How do you describe your creation, Nightingale?

Actually, Nightingale was originally created in 2013. It was one of the 50 or more private blends I have created for myself over the years. It’s really lovely and unique, so I decided to enhance and polish it further for Zoologist to publish.

My inspiration for Nightingale came from an ancient Japanese poem, collected in the significant Japanese poem compilation “New Collection of Ancient and Modern Poems” (1205 AD), which goes like this:

The poem was written by Fujiwara no Kenshi (藤原妍子, 994 – 1027), the younger sister of Fujiwara no Shōshi (藤原彰子, 988–1074), who at the time was the Empress of Japan. The Empress had decided to renounce her imperial duties and titles, and take vows as a Buddhist nun. On the day of her ordination ceremony, Fujiwara no Kenshi read to her this poem and subsequently gifted her a wooden box in which she found a rosary made out of agarwood. The box was tied with a ribbon and a plum blossom branch inserted in between.

The strong emotional power of this poem piqued my imagination, and I wanted to translate it into a fragrance. Its central theme led me to choose perfumery materials such as plum blossom, which is associated with the arrival of spring and new beginnings in life, and oud (agarwood). To give the perfume a classical essence, I added patchouli and moss.

In Japan, the arrival of spring is signified by the blossoming of plum trees and the beautiful songs of nightingales, so I thought Nightingale would be the perfect name for this perfume.

Speaking of the “plum blossom” accord, it is something that I have never smelled before in a perfume. Can you tell us more about that?

In Japan, we enjoy "Hanami", the viewing of plum blossoms and cherry blossoms in season. Note that the smell of plum blossom and plum are different; plum blossom is more complex and has an aroma constituent of plum. In Japan, the aroma of plum blossoms has been researched for years, and each fragrance company has their own plum-blossom perfume accord. Plum blossom has several different aromas, like powdery, rosy, fruity and more. I chose the “red plum blossom accord” for Nightingale, which I created seven or eight years ago. In it, some special vintage oils were used, such as ylang ylang from Manila and geranium from Bourbon, distilled before WWII in plum blossom accord and red rose accord respectively.

I have heard that Japanese prefer very light and “unobtrusive” perfumes. Is it true? Would you consider Nightingale a typical “Japanese perfume”, or completely something else?

Yes, that is true, but I never consider the Japanese market when I make a perfume. There is a big difference in preferences between niche perfume lovers and the majority. Zoologist perfumes is well-known for being different and daring, and I believe Nightingale is a good fit in the series.

In my opinion, Nightingale is a unisex perfume more catered towards mature perfume lovers. The combination of rose, oud, saffron and patchouli has some deep and sweet tones, and it’s quite opulent. It might be too strong for most Japanese tastes.

Now that you have a perfume under your name, do you want to design more perfumes for other fragrance houses in the future? Maybe another one for Zoologist? If so, which animal would you consider, and what would it possibly smell like?

Yes, of course. If I get an offer, why not? I’ve always enjoyed making perfumes, and right now I’m collaborating with a senior perfumer who has worked for Givaudan on a brand-new perfume that is not for sale, but just for fun – for both of us.

If I may choose next the animal for Zoologist, it'll be a black bird like a crow or black swan. I'll add patchouli, iris and coumarin and make it a powdery-sweet oriental-themed perfume.

Thank you so much for your time!

Zoologist Nightingale will be available in late October 2016

Confessions of a Fragrance Maker: A Very Honest Interview With Zoologist's Owner Victor Wong

by Miguel Matos

Zoologist is a brand that has received a lot of attention lately, after winning an Art & Olfaction Award for the Independent Perfume category with Bat. Now, Victor Wong decided to relaunch one of the first fragrances from the line, Beaver, now reformulated. Why did he do it? This question and some more are answered in the conversation we had.

Miguel Matos: First of all, let's speak about the recent re-edition of Beaver. You have just reformulated it and I know that you were thinking of reformulating Panda too. I know that this is a hard question, but after the first series of Zoologist, when you launched the brand, before Hummingbird and Bat, did you arrive at a point where you realized that maybe you've made a mistake?

Victor Wong: When I launched my products I thought that I had something special. I would not say that I had something bad. To me those were the perfumes I got after a year of development and I thought I wasn't getting any big progress. I thought that this was something I could launch, something that I could live with. But it was only after talking to perfumers and insiders that I realized some of the shortcomings of the perfumes. I would not dismiss them as a failure.

For full interview, please read here

ZOOLOGIST PERFUMES FINDS ITS NICHE

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Doug Wallace chats with the olfactory animal keeper, Victor Wong, of Zoologist Perfumes.

I became obsessed with Zoologist perfumes the second I saw them trapped in a display case in Men Essentials on Danforth Avenue in Toronto. What is this? I thought. AND THEN I SMELLED THEM and became both their master and slave. I fell off my chair when I realized they were Canadian, founded by Toronto’s Victor Wong in 2013, a video game artist who landed in the world of niche fragrance on a whim.

Essentially, the Zoologist brand “captures the idiosyncrasies of the animal kingdom and transform[s] them into scents that are unusual, beautiful, fun and even shocking,” according to the website.

They’re not kidding. I mean, when was the last time someone described their perfume as “cavernous”? Yet that is what the Bat Eau de Parfum smells like: fruit, dirt, decay, leather.

There’s also Panda (bamboo, osmanthus, mandarin), Rhinoceros (rum, leather, tobacco), Hummingbird (fruit nectars, trumpet florals, moss) and Beaver (linden blossom, iris, cedar).

The small disclaimer that “Our perfumes do not contain animal products” is hilarious. So, there is no actual beaver in Beaver? Somehow, I don’t feel ripped off.

For Full Article Please Read Here

First, I would like to congratulate you on receiving the Art & Olfaction 2015 Award in the Artisan Category for your perfume “Woodcut”. It’s been a few months since then, how do you feel now and how does it affect your future perfumery work?

It still feels a little unreal, although I have finally gotten used to seeing the golden pear displayed on my shelf! It’s a big honor to live up to, knowing that whatever I create in future will be compared with Woodcut.

In the fragrance community you are well respected for your perfume brand “Olympic Orchids”, but not many people know that you are a university professor and a professional orchid grower. Would you share with us some tidbits about your two other professions? And when and how did perfumery come into the picture?

Tidbits? I don’t have any good gossip that would interest anyone.

I started out in graduate school at Duke University studying the chemical senses, specifically focusing on how information about chemosensory quality is represented in spatiotemporal patterns of neural activity, but later became interested in hearing, especially echolocation in bats. I currently teach undergrad courses on sensation & perception, scientific writing, and psychology of music.

Oddly enough, it was my academic career that got me into orchids because an elderly colleague who grew orchids in his office retired, and those of us in the department divided up his plants. I got four Cattleyas, which thrived and bloomed in my office. They were the only “house plants” I has ever been able to grow successfully. Then another colleague took me to an orchid show, and I got hooked. After growing orchids for over 10 years as a hobby and subsequently growing them commercially for 10 years, I’ve smelled a lot of different orchid flowers. I got fascinated by their scents, and decided to try to recreate some of them as perfumes. The resulting intensive self-study of perfumery started well before I officially launched my perfume business 5-plus years ago.

You have always been studying and fascinated about bats. Was it the reason why you chose bat to create for Zoologist Perfumes? Did you want the perfume to smell like a bat, literally, or a creative interpretation of what a bat would smell like? And in what way do you think you have succeeded?

My research on bats has focused on how information is represented in temporal patterns of neural activity (bats can recognize a species of insect from any angle based on the time-varying pattern of acoustic “glints” reflected in echoes from the insect’s body), mechanisms for selective attention in a noisy environment (our brains and those of bats adapt to high-probability sounds, but are extremely sensitive to novel sounds), vocal learning in mammals (bats are some of the only mammals known to learn their vocalizations), seasonal changes in the auditory system (properties of the auditory system change depending on bats’ hormonal and metabolic states), and other related topics. I’ve published a large number of scientific journal articles and book chapters on all of these topics, and have an extensive knowledge of bats’ physiology, behaviour, and ecology.

I have personally trekked through the jungles of Jamaica in search of bat caves, experienced an earthquake while inside one of those caves, and crawled through filthy insulation in 130+ degree F hot attics in North Carolina in search of bat colonies. (These observations are “for whatever it’s worth”).

Of course I did not want to make a perfume that literally smells like a bat, although some species do have pleasant smells (most do not). What I wanted to do was represent the cool, earthy, damp limestone cave where the bats live, the fruit that they eat, and the clean, musky smell of their fur. I wanted it to be light enough to be like the delicate, elusive flight of a bat. However, when I was working on it I also found that it had the property of coming back at times when I didn’t expect it. I would intentionally or unintentionally wear a little bit of it to bed, and days later I would suddenly smell… Bat! This is appropriate because although it is light, it is also insistent enough to keep circling around the wearer and come back at surprising, odd times on clothing or other things that the wearer had touched. Knowing bats, I think it succeeds pretty well in doing what I envisioned.

I think Zoologist’s Bat is a one-of-a-kind perfume. I really have never smelled any perfumes like it. How would you describe the scent of Bat? Does it fit into any typical perfume genre? Who do you think would like to wear this perfume, and on what occasions? Does it matter?

I agree that Bat is a one-of-a kind perfume. I would describe it as moist, airy, earthy, minerally, fruity, resinous, and musky. Those probably seem like they would not go together, but they fuse into a unique whole that just smells like… Bat. I’m not sure you could fit it into any traditional genre. It’s neither masculine nor feminine. It’s just what it is. Even though it doesn’t fit into any known box, it’s a very wearable scent. I think people who aren’t hung up on conventional fragrance classifications would like to wear it. It has enough of a natural feel to appeal to those who like natural scents, but is complex enough to appeal to those who like sophisticated perfumes. I guess the potential wearer is anyone who enjoys it, on any occasion that they see fit. And no, it doesn’t matter.

One thing I notice about Bat is that it does not have any florals in it. Traditionally even the most masculine scents have some floral accords but they are masked by some heavier or stronger wood, herbal and spice notes. Do you think adding florals in Bat would make it more of a “crowd pleaser” perfume but not faithful to concept of the perfume, or do you think a perfume without any florals is actually something particularly interesting?

I see no reason why perfumes have to be floral. A number of my perfumes, including Woodcut, contain no floral notes at all, and they seem to be quite well-liked. I’m not a fan of floral perfumes on myself or on others, although I do like to smell floral fragrances on plants. Regarding Bat, there are nectar-feeding species of bats, but their habits and diet overlap with those of Hummingbird. In fact, some nectar-feeding bats look like hummingbirds as they hover in front of flowers, occupying the same niche at night that hummingbirds do during the day. The Bat I had in mind, though, is a small fruit-feeding species that lives in caves, so they would never encounter flowers except by accident. I think too many perfumes are designed to be “crowd-pleasers”, thereby rendering them bland and very similar to one another.

Do you have a favourite perfume genre and some favourite perfumery materials? Was there a perfume that you particular liked or found influential before you started making perfumes yourself?

I have created perfumes in most traditional European genres as an exercise, and some of these have been quite well-received. However, I consider working within a given genre too restrictive, so I think I end up mostly going outside standard perfume genres. I am partial to Arabian-style perfumes, if you consider that a genre. I use a lot of woody materials, incense, musks, herbs, and spices. I like to play around with offbeat materials that hardly anyone uses in perfume. I just got my hands on some "geosmin" aromachemical before I made Bat, and used it to help create the cave smell. I guess my general dislike for traditional European-style floral perfumes was one thing that inspired me to make my own.

Do you think Bat is quite typical of your perfumery style? Do you think people who enjoy your scents from Olympic Orchids would like it or it’s actually a big surprise in store for them?

I think Bat is typical of my style inasmuch as my style is often strange and unpredictable. People who like scents like Woodcut, Salamanca, Kingston Ferry, Blackbird, and the Devil Scents will probably like Bat. I hope it will be a good surprise for them!

If Zoologist Perfumes asks you to design their next perfumes, which animals will you suggest?

There are so many interesting animals that could inspire perfumes! Some have been done - Snakes, Gorilla, big cats and little cats (Hello Kitty). I’m thinking of weird ones like Platypus, Naked Mole-Rat (did you know they live in colonies with a queen, like bees?) Termite, Raven (too close to Blackbird?), Hyrax, Shark, Hydra, Dodo, Tyrannosaurus rex, Brontosaurus, Woolly Mammoth and other extinct animals, Silkworm, Kangaroo, Koala, Penguin, Parrot, Whale, Bird of Paradise, Komodo Dragon, Chameleon, Sloth, Spider, Scorpion, Armadillo, Hedgehog, Alligator or Crocodile, Cicada, Bullfrog, Treefrog, Woodpecker, Dung Beetle (maybe not!), Opossum, Moth, Octopus, Squid, Slime Mold, … the list could go on and on …. and, of course, Human (what would that smell like? Auto exhaust, laundry musk, tobacco and marijuana smoke, fast food, a plastic phone case …) .

Wow, you have inspired me! Thank you so much for creating Bat for Zoologist and taking the time to do this interview!

Photo by Lucien Knutesen.

Could you tell us something about yourself and your passion for perfumery? When did you first start making perfume?

Hi, Victor, and thank you for your good questions! I grew up in a Bohemian art colony where I was culturally and academically immersed in learning many arts; writing, music, jewelry making, woodworking, painting, textiles, enameling, sculpture and ceramics. I was taught a deep respect for tradition, and to strive to go beyond it in both my life and my work.

I first tried my hand at making perfume when I was ten. Unlike most other things I learned at the time, there was no available guidance or instruction, so my first attempts were poor. I set aside the idea, with the hope that I could learn more when I was older.

Molded artistically and temperamentally in a non-conformist community, I emerged with a burning desire to learn new things, meet new people, and explore new places. It required setting aside my shyness and leaving my solitary comfort zone. Professionally, I push myself to compete even though I’m essentially a collaborator. I take pretty big risks, both financially and physically – I’ve been lost in foreign countries, run out of money, missed flights, was mugged in Mougins. But the upside is what Roald Dahl speaks to when saying, “…the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.”

I am literally on a constant voyage of discovery. (Hence the name, En Voyage.)

You have fans of your perfumes all over the world. What do they like most about your perfumes?

If I try to summarize I’ll end up embarrassing myself, so I’ll just mention what others have said - that my perfumes are rich, and have a “wow factor” that most others don’t. They find my fragrances evocative and comforting, always complex and evolving over time. “They seem to have a life force or energy that is very vibrant,” is how one person describes them. “The ingredients are high quality, the concepts and packaging are well thought out and interesting, but that it’s the juice that excels.”

Another person kindly mentioned enjoying my wonderful scent portrayals of women, the balance of vintage and modern in my style, and the richness of detail even in my least complex creations. “These are perfumes made by someone that loves fragrance, and who makes them for people who also love fragrance. They are personal, affordable and meaningful.”

What is your approach to making a perfume?

Each project begins with an idea, followed by blending small amounts of oils in a tiny 5ml beaker.

Theoretically, I see it as the process of alchemizing a story. Some do it by painting, sculpting, writing, composing music, etc. I do it by arranging smelly molecules. It’s mostly a solitary, hands-on activity.

How would you describe the style of your perfumes?

Structurally, my perfumes are classical, although I’ve experimented with linearity. My early years as a natural perfumer strongly influence my work, and possibly contribute to the perception that my work is largely a balance between vintage and modern. I don’t set out to intentionally work in a “style”, and I’m not really sure how to describe what I do other than the above. Style is ultimately an attitude. Gore Vidal summed it up very well when he said that “Style is knowing who you are, what to say, and not giving a damn.”

Do you have a favorite perfume genre and some favorite perfumery materials?

Floral-amber and floral-chypre are well suited to my personal wearing style. So is oriental-amber-vanille. Favorite perfumery materials, hmm. I like orange blossom. And notes that evoke wet air after a thunderstorm. White flowers. Cyclamen. Hay, tonka, liatrix. Vanilla, tobacco, leather. Amber, sandalwood cedar. Conifers. resins and musks. Hey, did I just build a perfume? Victor, there are so many and they are all my favorites.

What were your initial reactions when Zoologist Perfumes approached you to make a perfume based on an animal theme? Was it a good challenge?

I was much honored and attracted by the whimsy and humor of the concept. Collaborating can be heaven, hell, or something in-between. Hummingbird has been a lot of fun and a very rewarding experience.

Do you find the theme or concept behind a perfume important?

Yes. A perfume without a theme or a concept is like a book with no plot or storyline.

Could you tell us what makes Zoologist's Hummingbird special?

Like her namesake, she’s cheeky and charming. And she drinks tons of nectars - honeysuckle, mimosa, pear and honey. We’ve given her a cozy little moss nest adorned with pretty things, and a soft blanket of musk and sandalwood to keep her warm and comfy.

You put great emphasis on high quality perfumery materials and it shows. Did you use any special materials in Hummingbird that you feel have made a big difference in quality and uniqueness?

I’m quite pleased with the materials that I was able to source for this project, especially the pear, honeysuckle, and mimosa absolutes from elite manufacturers. I was also able to get my hands on a rare but superbly fragrant and diffusive sandalwood.

If Zoologist Perfumes asks you to design their next perfumes, which animals will you suggest?

Oh I can imagine doing an entire flock of hummingbirds; Oriental Bruce Lee Hummingbird, Ancient Oudh Forest Hummingbird, Vlad the Impaler Hummingbird… But seriously, I love birds and animals both, so it would be fun to think about.

Thank you for inviting me to be the nose for Hummingbird. Thank you for a great interview!

Thank you, Shelley! Hummingbird is truly beautiful and unique, and I am sure perfume lovers will have another perfume designed by you to fall in love with!

Could you tell us something about yourself and your passion for perfumery? When did you first start making perfume?

Maybe as an Artist in many mediums, you could call me a perpetual “Noticer”. A photographer and artist is often so clued in to observational patterns, textures, sounds, and for me, odours as well. I really pay attention to my senses and what happens around me, and I particularly enjoy the scents around me in nature. I sit outside on a patio just now, in a short sleeved shirt, enjoying roses all across the garden in front of me, while parts of the USA now have more than six feet of snow. Living in So. California gives me great opportunity to enjoy beautiful flowers and scents year round.

I started on my perfumery journey when I moved away from the temperate beach climate of Southern California to the much hotter semi-desert region inland, buying an affordable house. I've been an artist and commercial photographer all of my life, and always enjoyed puttering around in the garage making things, but our new home’s garage was blazing hot in the summer, and freezes sometimes at night in the winter. This made working in the garage making art more difficult, and drove me inside. I began to explore my own desire for a nice scent to wear myself, since I didn’t seem to like a lot of what was available in the mass market, and also had some allergic reactions to some flowers and perfumery ingredients. This was 2005, and I sought out all possible sources of learning available to me in the deserts of California: the Internet, and any books I could find. I wasn’t in France, certainly… I learned from many sources, and many people too. When I started, even Andy Tauer was a part of the early online groups. Now, I moderate for the largest online group of 2200 Perfumers worldwide, and offer classes and workshops.

I launched my own line of PK Perfumes in 2012, and have won almost 30 awards for my Perfumes since.

What is your approach to making a perfume?

Artistic inspiration comes from so many sources, maybe a place, an abstract idea, a romance, a flower, or a really great material. Starting with the idea, then thinking about what else compliments and reinforces the concept. Sometimes surprises walk in and tear it apart, sending it in an unexpected direction, or can work out so very nicely. I think in this part of creation, that I am more experiential than theoretical. Success can come quickly sometimes, or with many months or years of trying to make your vision a reality. Perfumery is very contemplative, and also then, much patience is often required.

How would you describe the style of your perfumes?

Layered, textural, orchestral, rich, opulent, graceful and beautiful. And full of fantasy…

I liken perfume composition to composing a symphonic score, with main instruments, supporting and background players, voicing different notes and melodies with contrasting harmonies, and that unfolds and develops over a protracted period of time. Time has been a favourite element of many of my artworks, and it certainly plays a large part in my perfumery.

What were your initial reactions when Zoologist Perfumes approached you to make two perfumes based on an animal theme? Was it a good challenge?

The driving concept of the line was so very intriguing and challenging both. Animalic type perfumes seem to have suffered from a reactionary sentiment about using real animal elements. Since Zoologist Perfumes respects animals so deeply, and the perfumes refrain from using animal derived ingredients, there’s the challenge for me to both mimic and honour each animal, their environment, and the mythos surrounding them. Zoologist Perfumes therefore offers a unique opportunity to celebrate a somewhat ignored market segment in new and interesting ways.

Could you tell us what makes Panda and Rhinoceros special?

Composing Panda was a great and interesting confluence of fresh watery green notes, with Bamboo and Zisu leaves with their super bright green odour of perillaldehyde, plus beautifully interesting and different florals for me to employ (osmanthus, orange blossom, and lilies), and other unusual Asian natural materials like buddha’s hand citron, Sichuan pepper, and Pemou root. For me, there’s quite a romance surrounding Panda’s, with the abstraction and realities of China, and incense flowing into the streets from different temples and stores. It was really great to tap into this romance in composing Panda. Panda took quite a number of trials to get to the balance of what is now the final formula. Panda truly had to get worked out…

Rhinoceros, as Victor Wong at Zoologist Perfumes envisioned it, was a little different than I might have personally started from, and the different perspective that Victor brought was refreshing and I thought was a brilliant directive to work out. I quite surprised both Victor and myself, by getting quite close to what is now the finished fragrance formula, on the first trial. The rest was refining it, and then giving it the twist of rum in the top note that we initially didn’t have in the concept. And I really loved working the herbal aspects of Rhinoceros that were tailored to Victor’s initial vision and direction.

If Zoologist Perfumes asks you to design their next perfumes, which animals will you suggest?

Let’s see… We’ve done animals from North America, Africa, and Asia… How about something summery, colourful, and tropical for launch next summer? But I also could easily see a big cat, like Tiger, Lion. Leopard, or Cheetah, and a Fox, either a Red Fox, or Fennec Fox.

Could you tell us something about yourself and your passion for perfumery? When did you first start making perfume?

Making perfume has been a lifelong interest, going back to my early teens. Like many people I started by blending essential oils. I read-around the subject extensively - in those days I virtually lived in the library - we're spoiled now that the internet makes access to knowledge so much easier. By the time I was in my early twenties I'd made my first 'real' perfume as a gift for my mum - I rather suspect it was dreadful, but she wore it a few times anyway.

Shortly after that I got a proper job and pursued a career first in IT, later customer satisfaction, leadership, national security by way of intellectual property, human networking, training, sales and Government relations (I still do some consulting in most of those areas). Perfumes continued to be an interest in the background throughout this period, but wasn't my primary focus and I did a lot more buying than making. The background I gained in legal and regulatory frameworks has proved helpful in getting to grips with the many rules and regulations that surround perfumery, and a there's some other carry-over in terms of some of the basics of running a business in retail that have stood me in good stead. Even so it's hard to imagine a bigger change than between national security and fragrance creation.

One thing I have found is that understanding requirements is much the same whether you are selling a big computing deal or designing a bespoke perfume: it’s all about asking the right questions and listening carefully to the answers.

Along the way I discovered it was possible to get some formal training in making perfumes, and what's more I could get it from the perfumer who made an exclusive personal perfume for HM The Queen - with qualifications like that who could resist? My partner bought the first course for me as a birthday present and there was no stopping after that.

I was made redundant for the second time and it seemed fated that it was time to return to the early passion and make something of it: so I started making things I thought might sell and as luck would have it, most of them did… so I made more, learned more and that cycle continues: the more you learn the more you realise how much you don't know. I've always been driven to collect knowledge - whether of the not-much-use-except-in-trivia-competitions variety or the more directly applicable sort - I can't imagine stopping that until I'm packed into a (scented) pine box!

What is your approach to making a perfume? How would you describe the style of your perfumes?

I suppose it’s intuitive in the sense that I sort of know what to put together to get an effect, although there’s a fair bit of analysis there too: I start any new fragrance with a list of potential ingredients in a spreadsheet. Actually that’s not true because before that it’s an idea in my head that gradually develops into ingredients, that then get listed in the spreadsheet with first draft proportions. It’s only once I’ve spent quite a bit of time with the fragrance in this virtual state that I make up the first version. When I say quite a bit of time, that can be a couple of days or months depending on how hard I’m finding it. Once the first version is made then it’s either a case of chuck it out and start again or tweak to get to the scent I imagined. Tweaking can be a few versions or dozens – depending on both me and the client, if there is one.

What were your initial reactions when Zoologist Perfumes approached you to make a perfume based on an animal theme, and a perfume named "Beaver"?

Well to start with it’s always flattering to be asked to realise someone’s concept, to turn a dream into reality: it’s a great privilege to be able to do that. In this particular case though there was also the animal theme, which I loved from the start: animal ingredients have been a traditional part of the perfumer’s palette for generations (now mostly replaced with synthetic equivalents for ethical reasons) but it’s uncommon for any fragrance since the 18th century to feature animalics as the main theme.

But then there’s the beaver business and I must confess I was in two minds about that: the common euphemistic use of the term made it impossible to avoid a snigger at the idea, but the brief made it clear that what we were talking about here was the Canadian national animal – not just any animal and not a comedy fragrance: that made it a great challenge that I enjoyed working on.

I’m still hoping to be asked to do Arctic Fox by the way – one of my dogs (Jazz) does that characteristic pounce we’ve all seen arctic foxes do on wildlife documentaries – it reminds me of the idea every time I see her do it.

Could you tell us what makes Beaver special? Is it a big deviation from other perfumes that you've made in the past, or even from most perfumes in the market?

Beaver is first and foremost an animal fragrance: a complex of musks and animalic materials. I wanted to capture the claustrophobic closeness of the inside of the den as well as watery notes to reflect the beaver’s well known practice of damning and of course some distinct woody notes to get the sense of the felled trees used in building. But most of all it’s the animal: not dirty (beavers are in and out of water all the time after all) but not sterile or washed either. There are a few animalic fragrances on the market, a very few, but there’s nothing quite like Beaver: he’s a very civilised, sophisticated chap, but he’s still an animal for all that.

Castoreum has been a common musky ingredient for perfumes for decades. What is its special property and what role does it play in the Beaver perfume?

Castoreum is one of the traditional animal ingredients – very few perfumers now use the natural extract of beaver glands – there are no animal parts in Beaver. However I did use a very fine quality recreation to give the uniquely leathery-musk, faintly sour scent that is so uniquely beaver, it just had to be present in Beaver. Unlike Civet there is no faecal quality to castoreum, it’s clean but darkly animalic and very, very interesting: it adds a wonderfully complex undertone to the play of water, wood, musk and maple leaves that make up the heart of this characteristically Canadian scent.